Ep #30. Pregnancy Alchemy with Pilar Lesko {Podcast}
Full Episode Show Notes
The Medicine of the Bare Minimum, Entrepreneurship and Inviting More Spiritual Energy Into Your Work, & Navigating Death and Grief in Pregnancy
This episode has been years in the making and is an honor to share with you. Pilar has been one of my mentors for the last 6 years, and soon after I found out that she is also pregnant, I knew we had to sit down together to explore:
• How the spirit of her baby waited for her to release the energy of working herself to death before dropping in
• The medicine of the bare minimum and how pregnancy has forced a complete reorganization of our lives
• How the physical limitations of early pregnancy revealed inauthentic doing energiesthat were ready to be transformed
• Experiencing divine creation happening internally while facing very human challenges of not feeling well externally
• Pilar's mother's death and how her pregnancy has created new understanding and healing
• Altering our relationship to social media and creation
• Pilar's father's recent death and the relief she felt in his release
• The power of having the opportunity to face our greatest fears through losing our parents, and find more aliveness than ever on the other side.
Exclusive ways to work with me before I take Maternity Leave:
I have very limited spaces open for 1:1 work in September and October. Explore more + apply here!
Melina and I are hosting our last Sacred Ground Ceremony for Grief and Growth of the year on Sunday, September 28th at 1pm ET / 10am PT. Sign up to join us here.
More about Pilar Lesko:
Pilar has been immersed in a world of mysticism her entire life. The death of her Mother at age two and subsequent karma-laden childhood cracked open her intuitive gifts, connection to the Great Mystery, and a trust that couldn’t be broken.
She has spent the last 15 years studying and training in energy work, psychic development, trauma integration – and anything that helps her become more human.
She bridges 15+ years in the healing arts with 10+ years of experience in entrepreneurship to teach business, leadership, and money differently. She is passionate about offering this work to those here to steward a new era of life-giving success and generative commerce.
Pilar is the founder and steward of The Hive, a virtual membership to train your energy and build your business, and The Hivemind, an invitation-only mastermind for female business owners.
She also offers occasional masterclasses, courses, and private mentorship for conscious leaders.
She makes but one promise with her work: to develop a deeper intimacy with Life itself.
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Transcript
Ellie: 0:03
Welcome to Transformed by Grief. My name is Ellie Thomas and I am here to guide you on your transformational grief journey From feeling lost, raw and brokenhearted, questioning everything in you and around you, to reconnecting to the truth of who you are and the beauty, fulfillment and vibrancy of life that is still available in you and through you. On this podcast, we explore the depths of what it means to say yes to life again after you've been broken open by pain and grief. We will explore what it means to create a deep, loving and reverent relationship to yourself, to grief and to life in a way that allows you to begin to rebuild from the inside out and to create a powerful foundation for a joy-filled, alive feeling and fulfilling life you love. Hello, welcome back to the show.
Ellie: 1:04
Everyone, I feel really emotional as I open up this episode, the first Transformed by Grief podcast episode that has been aired and published and shared for you since I found out that I was pregnant in February 2025. It's actually pretty funny to go back and look and see that the last episode, which is like it felt like the energy of its own standalone season of potency and power and fire. It felt like it was kind of the entryway into what was about to happen and I had no idea. I had no idea what was coming my way and in the last couple weeks I have slowly found more and more energy, more and more words, more and more desire to share this whole process and this whole experience with you. What 2025 has been, the ways it has deeply shifted and changed me and also opened me and tapped me so much more fully into myself, and how that dance with what my work is has been involved in that, and how that has impacted the ongoing grief journey. And after recording this incredible conversation with one of my long-term mentors, pilar Lesko, which I am so honored to bring to you and to be one of the vessels that gets to share the intense and immense level of heart that she has, that I have, that we share together in our many differences and also our similarities of our paths.
Ellie: 3:14
As I was anticipating sharing it with you, I really wanted to record a full-on episode for you all about just leading up to the now, before I shared this and I was planning on doing that last week and I made space to do that on my calendar and it was in my focus and then we received just some news of unexpected things in pregnancy and things that need to be considered and potentially shifted a little bit, and I had to truly live the energy and the medicine that is this episode and walk myself through the process of meeting all of the emotion that was here and all of the humanness, and also feeling the profound divinity and reassurance that my husband and I have both felt alive in our hearts in this process, and to open and trust that when this episode comes out, it is the perfect reintroduction to who I am through this journey and it's only going to change again soon, I'm sure, as I give birth in the next couple weeks or months and also just the deep trust that this is the most perfect introduction to topics that I cannot wait to explore with you in the weeks to come. I have many episodes and shares and wisdom portals and nuggets that I have recorded that I can't wait to be dripping out for you over the next few weeks. This feels like its own kind of mini season of the show, of all of this heart, energy and love that is here to share and put out into the world before baby arrives, and then I will probably take another break and just let it all marinate and come back to life in its new form again. So today's episode is extremely special. It is a long, long, long time coming.
Ellie: 5:36
I mentioned that at the beginning and share a little bit. But Pilar has been a mentor of mine since. But Pilar has been a mentor of mine since well, actively since the beginning of 2020, when I had this massive opening and shift in the way, own deep inner unravelings and work with another long-term mentor and was hungry to join everything that was happening with me on the inside, with my work and my business and my sense of calling to entrepreneurship, and also while honoring my energy and honoring who I was discovering that I was and all of the deconditioning that was happening in me through that process. And so it's been almost six years and potentially it has been six years since we initially connected. But I have been in Pilar's fields and her containers of all kinds since then and just continue to receive so much from her as a mentor, as a teacher, as a, as I mentioned in this episode.
Ellie: 7:06
The feeling I've always gotten from her is just like this older soul sister that she has been to me without necessarily even knowing it and in the process leading up to my mom's death, her last year of life. I had many dreams where Pilar showed up in them and had some very powerful accompaniment energetically in that process with my mom and I have shared so much life and so much loss with her and in her spaces in a way that has been deeply nourishing, and it feels like an incredible full circle moment to share with you that she shares for the first time publicly some of that process in her own life and what that has been like in the past couple months for her around a loss that has occurred while she has been pregnant. So I feel incredibly honored to get to be the oh I don't even know what to call it like steward of this conversation and to get to share it with you. We go into so so, so much. We talk about entrepreneurship and what I call now the medicine of the bare minimum, being projector, feminine beings that, through our bodies, have been slowed down to what has felt like zero in the external to create life internally and everything that has opened up in healing for each of us in parallel ways and very different ways as well, being in different states of business. We both share our heart and medicine so fully in this conversation and we go into grief and grieving those we have already lost. She shares the process of grieving her most recent loss. We talk about social media and how it feels from this place and what it's like to be walking this line between divine creation and absolute humanness at the same time, and there's just incredible richness and wisdom alive here for you, and I can't wait to hear how it lands in your heart and your being and your life and what it feels like. It opens. So, pilar, to you. Thank you for trusting me, thank you for loving me, all these being such an incredibly open and integrous teacher, always willing to offer your medicine as it is now and also let it evolve and refine through life. So much of my profound relationship for life. I think it was inevitable that that happened in me, but so much of it has been supported by the work that you do and that we have done together, and so thank you. Thank you for trusting me, for being here, for opening your heart and your wisdom and for the listener.
Ellie: 10:50
There are a few really important announcements I want to make sure you know about before we dive into the episode. The first is that I have very limited but sacred spaces available for one-on-one work before I leave for maternity leave at the end of October. If you have felt the call to work together or if, through this episode or any other episode, you feel the call to work with each other, now is the moment, the time I am sure I will offer space again in 2026, but I don't know exactly when that will be and I can feel the richness and the ripeness of the medicine and the perfect timing of this container and the container of working one-on-one with people in this time period. And so I have kept space open and if you feel the call, I invite you in. There is the option for a four-week container with me where we meet weekly, and there's also an option for a one-on-one private grief flow for you or for a small group of people, like your family or your community.
Ellie: 12:02
And the second really important announcement for right now is that Melina and I are leading our last Sacred Ground Ceremony for Grief and Growth on September 28th of this month. That's the last Sunday of the month. It's at 1 pm Eastern, 10 am Pacific, and these ceremonies have now almost been running for a year. Again, we will run them at some point in 2026, but we do not know exactly when that will be and how frequently we will do them. After this big transition and after I complete my maternity leave and these gatherings, I can feel how important this last one is. These gatherings have been a source of life and healing for so many women in the past year, and if you have felt the call to join any one of them and have not been able to, this is the moment to do that. So I will leave the links in the show notes for both one-on-one work and for Sacred Ground to make it really easy for you. Please also feel free to reach out to me if you have questions.
Ellie: 13:17
And yeah, I can say that I think it's clear in this episode, but there is so much deepened medicine alive here in the process of what 2025 has been, and I can't wait to continue to offer it, continue to let it deepen and to involve and share it with the perfect people right now as it is. In further episodes that are coming out in the coming weeks, I will share more about the ways that the sanctuary will be transforming in this time, but for now, one-on-one work and coming to Sacred Ground feels like exactly what is supposed to be out there, so I welcome you in if that is for you. I can't wait to work with you, to be with you, to support you in that process, whether it be just with me or with the beautiful group that's forming for Sacred Ground at the end of the month, or with the beautiful group that's forming for Sacred Ground at the end of the month, and if you feel called to dive into Pilar's medicine in any way. After this episode, I have listed her membership and every other way you can find her and connect with her in the show notes, her membership. The Hive has been something that I have been a part of for years, on and off now, and has been one of my favorite places to be in the online world. So if that calls to you and the explorations of business and energy that we explore here feel alive for you, make sure to check those out as well.
Ellie: 15:05
Without further ado, here is this incredibly deeply nourishing, powerful, heart-filled and opening conversation with Pilar Lesko. Hello, welcome back to the Transformed by Grief podcast. I'm really honored today to have a longtime teacher and someone that I consider to be. You feel have always felt like an older soul sister to me, and yet you're younger in your human years, but I have received so much just in sisterly and profound mentorship and teaching from you. So, pola Ilesco, welcome to Transformed by Grief. Thank you for being here, thank you for having me.
Pilar: 16:13
I'm so happy to be here.
Ellie: 16:15
I'm so glad to have you. I shared a little bit of this with you already, but I wanted to say it here and elaborate a little bit. Wanted to say it here and elaborate a little bit. When I started the show, it was very much meant to be an Ellie show, not a lot of guests I could feel that very clearly. But there's a few people that I've just wanted to jive with and you've been on the short list of those people since the very beginning and I also was always tuning into where I was at with myself and in relationship to you as a teacher and mentor and someone that I have looked up to and received from and you know all of the dynamics that I've just moved through and my own reverence of being with you in that role and I often got this little tap like yeah, you'll talk to Pilar at some point, but it's not time yet. And recently that felt like it started to clear and then when I found out that you are also pregnant, everything was just like oh, I was like whoa, things are happening and I have felt so incredibly deepened into myself in a way that I can show up to this conversation from a different place with you now and welcome you in in a different way, and I am so kind of in awe of the under, under workings and unravelings that are happening, so this feels extremely special.
Ellie: 17:49
Years in the making. For context. I will share a little bit in an intro, but for context, I've known you virtually for five, over five years, like five and a half years, over five years, like five and a half years. And wow, thinking of the me that maybe I've known you for almost six I think. I remember booking in and in a kind of exploratory session and I was, oh my gosh, I feel like such a different person. That is so wild to think about that. But yeah, this really feels like an incredible moment to come together and talk about some really potent alchemical aspects of pregnancy and grief. And I even feel like there's this conversation around work and especially as projector, human design projectors, but just in general that entrepreneurs that wants to weave into. So thank you for being here. Anything you would like to share as we begin?
Pilar: 19:01
I'm just really honored to be here. I'm just really honored to be here and I remember you. In 2020, and I know you were different, I know we were all different, but your medicine was there. It was there. It was so clear and powerful. You brought the whole Projector Magic group together. Through sharing your heart, we had our first shared moment of total silence, just witnessing you. That had never happened on a call before. That was you and that's was you and that's who. That's who you still are, just more you and, not surprisingly, that was about grief.
Ellie: 19:53
So I feel like the interweaving of so much of our it's just expanding, but so much of our connection and so much that you've offered me and that I've learned and then has become my own version, has been this beautiful interweaving of giving grief space and also coming into fullness with my work and the ongoing dance of that, and it feels like now that's just being amplified and added to. But, yeah, okay. So I think of grief and pregnancy as very similar in many ways and, at the same time, very different, obviously. And the first thing that I want to ask you is when somebody is grieving or when somebody is pregnant, asking how somebody is is not, doesn't, makes no sense. It's like how are you in this moment? What are you moving through right now? Things can change from hour to hour, from minute to minute. So where do you find yourself in your process right now and how are you today?
Pilar: 21:07
Oh, that's such a good point. Let's see today, and in my process today, I feel uh, good-ish, um, physically. I just had a hard weekend. I said I just had a hard few days physically, uh, which also kind of results in having a hard time energetically and emotionally and psychically and, to give context to that, my whole pregnancy or not my whole pregnancy. But since I've started to feel a little bit better, I'll get really excited like a child who thinks it has all the energy in the world and I'll be like this, feel really unwell again and have to accept that that wasn't who I was. Now. That was just part of what was happening and inevitably there's ebbs and flows. So I just had a really big ebb and now I'd say I'm kind of like coming back up, maybe heading towards flow, and then the let's see the like, what I'm in, not just how I'm feeling or not just how I'm doing today, time doing today A very, a very, very bizarre level of acceptance.
Pilar: 23:23
Like I didn't know acceptance could go this deep, and that's not just the last few days, that's been the last few months, but it just keeps getting deeper and I am nowhere near close to meeting who I am through this. I feel like I've met 1% of her, but the 1% that I've met is so markedly different and feels like a version of myself that part of me knew I wanted. Part of me didn't know I wanted. And if you would have shown her to me even six months ago, and then all that her and all the past versions of me would have laughed like there's no way you access that that quickly. There's no way you access that that quickly. There's no way you become that or feel that that quickly. Okay, and then the final thing I'll add is this and this is cool is Chris and I are starting to together, on our own, and together deepen in meeting the personality of the baby and we're like terrified terrified of mine too.
Pilar: 24:55
That's hilarious yes, we're looking. I'm like what are we gonna do? And chris is like it's gonna be fine. Yeah, that kind of sums up all the different spots happening, oh my gosh, wait, let's talk more about that for a second.
Ellie: 25:13
because, um, this child inside of me is so active and I am scared, shitless and like, and everyone turns to me and I'm like, yeah, because Ellie, you are so active, and I'm like, no, but this is another level, the spunk level, and even as we've been exploring names there's been a few names I'm like I like that name, but it is not spunky enough for this human. It is, first of all, I think it's so wild to have to name a human when you haven't met them yet. But, uh, or come up with ideas. But also, it's been so fascinating. I'm like, yeah, I love it, but it just doesn't work for this child, because the energy here is so, so beautifully wild and also that level of surrender that is needed to this process, and while also being in the deep, knowing that this is my child and you know we, we know each other and we are here for this and this is all interwoven purposefully.
Pilar: 26:17
Yeah, it's so wild, anything's why you two are the perfect person to name her Like. Because because you've the naming process is so beautiful and ancient. It's not just you and your husband thinking separate from your collaboration with the baby about names. It's like thinking into the collaboration, yeah, and you'll feel her like yes, that's a good name, or that's my name, yeah.
Ellie: 27:14
It's a really, it's a really special process. Okay, I want to go back to feeling the physical aspects of this process and how that interweaves with the quick deaths and the quick welcoming in of parts of you that you never imagined could come in so fast. I was you know this, obviously, but nobody else listening may. Um, I was in your mastermind when I found out that I was pregnant and I had invested and started from a very different place, looking at my life from a very different place, looking at what I wanted to focus on from a very different place, and I was humbled to the core. And the process of finding out which felt so right, and also just the unraveling happened so quickly and I could even feel it.
Ellie: 28:13
When I look back again, feel it kind of the month beforehand already starting to happen, but how quickly and I explained this happening in grief a lot too where like an atom bomb goes off and then the ripples move really quickly at the beginning and then they slow down, but they are there for a long, long, long time and you are just meeting every ripple and so the velocity in which you're meeting them at the beginning is very intense potentially, but then over time they're spread out infinitely. And so that was my experience in this too. It was like, oh yes, this is happening, this is real. Here we are, boom and life you know life being as I knew it being shattered, and then also the ripples that were met over and over and over again, so much of which came on with the limitations of my body and the limitations of my energy. For me, I, from what I've gathered, you've been pretty sick. I wasn't as physically sick, but I was so fatig literally I can get food and be in bed and that is it.
Ellie: 29:30
And having to enter into a level of trust and welcoming that I mean that was as I've offered this idea, but I'm starting to call it the medicine, the medicine of the bare minimum and the intense initiation that that was and has been and continues to be, and also the lessons of starting to let go of so quickly what isn't going to be included in the season, and that is an ongoing process, and an ongoing process in motherhood, I can imagine. But something that I really felt, so accompanied by our mastermind group and by you, and also tremendous grief, was in that for me of the ideas and the visions and the what I thought this, you know this what I thought this season was going to be, and coming into what you said, that acceptance on a level that you didn't know was possible place, but initiated through the body. What comes up for you around that?
Pilar: 30:42
That's such a good description of all of it. I went and I'm going through something really similar. I'm trying to decipher where to begin because this story for me, is all intertwined, yes, and it's woven into the conception. So let's start there. So I got a very strong feeling when we were and I don't even like this phrase because it trying to conceive like I really don't like that phrase it's it's like we were co-creating to conceive, we were collaborating to conceive, but we weren't.
Pilar: 31:36
I was trying, I was trying, chris was making art, he he was in total flow, I was trying and I, we were sitting in bed one night and I felt so clearly the, the spirit who I was in communication with and was it knew. I knew it was in communication with and was it knew, I knew it. I'd known it for around a year. This, this specific spirit, and I feel like this is a very strong foreshadowing to its personality and our dynamic. But I I felt it like I'm not coming down until, like you, work through this thing more, and the thing was this energy of working myself to death over responsibility, and it wasn't like nurturing about it. It was like your uterus feels hostile. I don't want to be in it. It was like your uterus feels hostile. I don't want to be in it, and it was just so clear and it wasn't. Hey, you need to heal this whole thing. And it also wasn't news to me that that wanted to transform again, because that's been transforming for a really long time. But as we were conceiving it, the over responsibility I just call it the working myself to death energy, which is an extreme way to put it, because, if I'm being more grounded about it, the majority of this energy wasn't mine. It just pulsed through my system and my first energy center really strongly, and it's always an interesting thing to talk about, because we're used to hearing stuff like this and then seeing images of coal miners or people breaking their back in a job they despise.
Pilar: 33:48
When for me, this, this energy, was coexisting in a career that I'm absolutely in love with. It. It wasn't so black and white, but it it snaked its way kind of through everything and we had uh, we had a number of things happen in a very small period. One was we found out we needed to move. I was in a very busy season in the business and then we were trying to conceive and it was like my plate of trying and doing and responsibility got so full. And it wasn't responsibility. The way I was relating to everything was sticking it all on my back, not sitting it in front of me and being in relationship to it. And when we added conceiving, it was just so obvious that the spirit was like no, like that, I'm not being created. Like this, like this is not how it's going down.
Pilar: 34:55
And that night I I had uh, I was really overwhelmed, I had hit a wall and I opened up to Chris and one of the things I said, which it's like it's how I felt in the moment, but I understood more of the picture than this, but I said I feel like something's wrong with me because we're I, we're not getting pregnant, like I like, I feel like something's wrong with me. And and Chris heard that and was like he, he, it upset him so much that this was an experience I was having and he didn't even really know I was having that experience. And he looked at me and I cried. I had like a nice dry, heevy cry and I had a really, really beautiful release and I wasn't seeing clearly and it was like the thing I was expecting to hear back, not from Chris, but from the way those energies in my space would have talked to me was we'll just keep pushing.
Pilar: 36:16
And I looked at him, thinking I was going to hear something like that. And he looked at me and was like take everything that's not the essentials off your plate tomorrow. He looked at me and was like take everything that's not the essentials off your plate tomorrow. He's like rearrange the whole business if you have to. He was like give yourself a break, take a sabbatical, change everything. He was like you're allowed to do that. It's not even just you're allowed. We are able to do that. And he was like you're not 25 anymore driving with negative dollars in your bank account. This is something we can do.
Pilar: 36:52
And to have a man who sees me so deeply hear that whole, change it with, with with no concern of getting a house, conceiving the business, like none of that mattered to him at all. And he said he's like I'd live in a box with you, you, me and the baby can. It was like. And that, uh, that window from having that release to the next day, rearranging everything and opening up this glorious space. We were pregnant, I think within the week it w. It was like the spirit was sitting on my shoulder with its like weird clock, its weird watch, where, like, the time's all wrong and everything's going in different directions. It was like I'm ready, but you need to do a little bit of rearranging, and so that was.
Pilar: 38:02
If you want to look at it in this way, that was an element of the seed. The beginning said you have to let go of this for me to come in. And then the pregnancy has been just an absolute dissolution of exactly like you said, anything that is not the bare minimum, of exactly like you said, anything that is not the bare minimum, and saying bye-bye to all the parts of my identity that were wrapped up in anything that was more than that Thinking. That's how I, if I were to really simplify and sum it up, it would be thinking that that is the only way to do something. That's doing something when what we're both doing right now that nobody can see, is doing something in such a profound way, and that is so a testament to the feminine, to being projectors, to being highly sensitive, to being psychic. We're doing so much and, other than our bumps, no one can see and there's no measurable metric of like. Look at all the stuff I did yeah, yeah.
Ellie: 39:32
So many thoughts. The first is I love hearing that story with Chris. My husband and I had a very different but a moment where, after a very hard fight in a car ride home, of talking through it, the car held the space for grief that's been there for years of watching our friends become parents in a timeline that was perfect for them but but wasn't right for us and I in no moment felt like this should have happened already. It felt very clear to me, but he had his own process with that and I also have my own grief with just watching everyone around us that was younger than us, you know, in the human aspects, step into this new phase of life, when I was having to do things differently and process loss and process parts of work and life and our move from South America to the US, which takes so long to truly feel like in rhythm again, individually and together. Um, and home, you know, home wise all of the energies of that and while there was no doubt for me that that was the correct path, it was also extremely painful and moments and I just remember that car ride of like watching my husband finally share some of his grief and me being able to see. I've had that grief too, and maybe we've shared it in nuggets, but something about that moment, just let it all be out there and released from the energy of the two of us together and the energy of his body and my body and my. I think I had my last period while we were having that conversation.
Ellie: 41:35
Um, and I don't know if you know this part of the story, but I'm sitting right next to a window and there's a yard light that comes out from the edge of my house and this tiny little screech owl came to visit us one night on a Friday night. I happened to be working at like 8 pm because I had stuff I had not finished yet and Saba and Pepper were watching TV and I'd gone outside and came running up like, look out your window and there's this tiny little screech owl just staring at us through the window. I literally could. It's like two arm's lengths away on the other side of the window. And we came back to the calendar after we found out they were pregnant and looked at the pictures and that was within 24 hours of conception. Um, and these like moments of just I. This owl was just peering into both of us would look at me, would look at him through the window, was not freaked out at all. It was the coolest thing in the world and also quite eerie and and so magical and just coming back to like the, the thread that was there and the openings that were happening and the presence that was there in ways that I hadn't personally made much space to connect with.
Ellie: 43:03
I don't know, it's added to this sense of awe of this entire process for me, even though there have been so many extremely painful parts of this. And when people ask what's your favorite part of pregnancy, which people have asked, which I find such an interesting question and from a very you know, I'm not really willing to bypass any of the hard. So, from a very real place, my answer, as I've sat with it, has been the incredible opportunity and gift of allowing divine creation to be happening inside of me while I am still so, so human and I'm gonna miss that part, like I think it will continue in its own way through motherhood. But the yeah, it brings me to tears. It's this incredible sense of awe that in every moment of the suffering, of every moment of grief and every moment of the suffering, of every moment of grief and every moment of not feeling well, of just like feeling ridiculous, basically because this process is kind of ridiculous in the human aspect of it. That balances so beautifully with this energy of trying which I wanted before I let you like respond to anything you want to respond to.
Ellie: 44:51
I, when you were talking about the trying, I was like wow, yes, because the medicine of the bare minimum for me has been so much around letting go of trying to be something and someone that I'm not hoping to get somewhere through that. And it's like this baby came in and was like no, we can't do that, there's no energy for that. This like you're done. You're done. You have not graduated, but I'm going to help you graduate because it's time. You know you've like gone through the ringer enough with this that it's time to just take the leap forward.
Ellie: 45:26
And that energy of trying and the relief of the invitation to stop trying so hard for me has been continuously on many levels and, as you said, something that I think I even mentioned in our in our mastermind sessions, in over responsibility with my family or things that I over caretaking, that I was working through in the months before I we conceived, and that was like this is a do not pass go thing and then boom, that atom bomb thing where just everything is leveled.
Ellie: 46:11
So I'll let you kind of see whatever you want to respond to about any of those aspects. But yeah, wow, it's also interwoven. I have trouble really parsing it into compartment, a compartmentalized conversation, but, um, it's a very profound feeling to for me it has been to come to acceptance of not not having to try so hard and literally not being able to try so hard, and then to surrender to the fact that within us, this unseen process that is so divine is happening. As you said, minus the bump, nobody is, is aware right Of, of, I mean aware, yes, but uh, really taking stock and yeah, what comes up for you uh, so much your.
Pilar: 47:17
Your answer to your favorite part about pregnancy is so perfect. I've been saying something similar, but not as eloquent Like mine has been the fact that I am growing life and the magic of that. And then getting to feel the life and feel the spirit amidst so much poop, like feeling, amidst never feeling worse and never so much death, so much rearranging, but you summed it up so perfectly amidst being more human, more human-y, human than anything has ever been, on all levels, from my body, what it does, to everything happening in my life, to what my days look like, all of it. And then this is just happening, this is just happening inside of me, and that, when I was really sick, was other than the psychic elements of what was occurring were very difficult but, uh, really really profound in terms of things that wanted to clear out of me and things that wanted to be transformed. That was, that was a huge part of being sick, but in all honesty, that was still kind of hard work in a way, and the thing that got me through was like seeing that that week the heart had grown, or feeling the spirit hanging out outside of me, like checking in, or or feeling the spirit's collaboration with what was happening, that that was like the thing that it would. It would like we.
Pilar: 49:35
When we went and got an ultrasound, I was like and we heard the heartbeat. I was like this will see me through weeks of feeling horrible the sound. Yeah, I don't know what else to respond to. You said so many amazing things. Can you like cue me up with a specific thing?
Ellie: 49:56
Yeah, trying More. Any other thoughts on trying? You spoke to it a lot already, but yeah, let's see For.
Pilar: 50:07
Okay, for for me, because we're having very cool parallel experiences. And then there's some awesome differences. Yeah, for me, uh, there's always. I've been working with this for a long time, but now the process has been immensely expedited. But and this is really common in almost everyone I work with and it's it's very it it takes on a very specific flavor for women and that's how we have been modeled through, whether that was actually modeled to us in our lives or we just inherited the modeling of how we relate to and run our energy around doing. And then for a lot of women, where I'll see it as it comes up in work and it's comedic because everyone I work with, the majority of people, are in the healing arts or do something very niche and esoteric, but it doesn't matter, it still shows up. This way we start to run our energy when it's time to do, and I had that very strongly and it formed it. It was interesting how it entangled with different parts of my personality and my, my identity that are natural, but it's like when something mixes up like that, it's like what's me and what's that, and they seem to have created a whole new being and now I don't know what comes from what. And so I had been working on this for a while, leading up to becoming pregnant, and I was moving at very much a snail's pace and because I had the energy to still do in a much more, in a much bigger way than I can now, it was easy to work on it a little bit, but still not not intensely overload myself. But it's like it's like oh, I, I'm just going to have a candy bar Cause it's there, you know what I mean? Like I have a job, there's like a whole cabinet of candy bars and they're just, it's like that. It's like the cabinet of candy bars was full so I could just take one and eat one, cause it was right there. And that, uh, that energy we could call it like a trying energy. But the way it would if I were to really really simplify, running my energy like that took all the fun and richness and beauty out of anything I was doing, even if that thing was rich and fun and beautiful, anything I was doing, even if that thing was rich and fun and beautiful.
Pilar: 53:11
And as I was, as we were leading up to becoming pregnant, I was having a really deep go of it with time, with linear time, and I it was a I was having a very, very Saturnian period and this this actually really wove in with with conceiving, because I remember I was like conceiving cannot be a thing I'm doing on my to-do list. It cannot like this and that don't belong together. But I was. I was just coming in to deeper contact with the nature of linear time and our collaboration with it and how me running my energy like that Time would go, like this it would just drain, a day would go by and it would feel like two minutes and the day was gone and I had been watching this, noticing it, and being like this cannot, I cannot live my life like this. And it doesn't matter that I love everything in my life. That's not enough. I have to be so much more diligent about the energy I'm running when I come into my life, because it can go so fast and that is not what I want, and this was like a year so fast and I, that is not what I want. And this was like a year, a couple of years before, and I remember thinking I I don't want to become pregnant and become a mom and miss my life. Yeah, because there's more to do and sports and like car rides and and you know all the things, and it can just become more to do, more to, more to track, and I was like I cannot. It's like what better way to be completely obliterated by the need for presence than building a life and birthing a life and then meeting that life and stewarding it? And I felt that coming and so, okay, all this to say I was working on these shifts in my energy, I was starting to experience them, I was making some nice progress. Then I got pregnant and it's like you said, it's like the atom bomb or the. This is the. You said it so well. You were like your daughter was like okay, you've, you've made some nice progress and now we're gonna, we're gonna take it home, we're gonna like bring this home. It was like that I got pregnant and it was like everything came together into a zero point and took it home.
Pilar: 56:14
Where, where now I I feel so free, because not only is my energy completely different when I do, to a comedic point like I, the other night I wrote an email at like 9pm, naked on the couch with the TV on. That was like a big no no for old Pilar, like old Pilar. It was like we don't work at this hour and like we don't, the TV can't be on. There was like all these, all these like things of like what we can do, what we can't do. And Chris just looked at me and he was like welcome to motherhood. When I was like I just wrote an amazing email at 9 PM and he was like yeah, that you're. He's like this is part of it, like you're becoming so flexible, but now it's I.
Pilar: 57:04
I feel free in the nothingness because how can I put this into words? I have done in my work and in the house home activities, cleaning, laundry, everything, work, work at home, work at work at work like all my chores, my to do. I've done almost nothing for three months and I have been completely carried by the wings of grace. And one of my teachers said to me he's like well, now, he said, you're streaming more spiritual energy into your work than you ever have before. And he was like look at how much that does. And then he said and this is what you do when you become a mom and your plate gets fuller, is, he said, you do it with your kids, you do it with your work, you learn how to exert less and offer more spiritual energy into everything. And he was like and that's how everything miraculously gets done without you overdoing it. And I've experienced that, I've tasted that and it's hilarious because you know this.
Pilar: 58:24
I've talked about this for a very long time. Like I've talked about, like, there is a power in your being and in your engagement with life that carries your work. That can't be defined by how many tasks you did that day or how many emails you've written tasks you did that day or how many emails you've written and it will do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. And old me knew that to a degree, but this me is like the roof has been blown off of what that actually means, and it's only just the beginning and I'm no longer. I used to look at women and go how are they doing all this? Women with multiple kids who run businesses, and it didn't make sense to me. And now it makes sense to me. Like you are rearranged and everything is rearranged.
Ellie: 59:21
Yes, yes, yes. Understanding that this is preparation is something I did not understand before, and Melina said it to me and now many other people have said that to me. It's like, yeah, really, on many levels, prepare. You know this, this chunk of time prepares you and and and also, and, and I, and I want to follow this beautiful arc of transition. I can feel coming of like very again, something that I find similar to grief is like you are prepared sometimes and then you also can never prepare, and so we'll get to that in a second.
Ellie: 1:00:07
But I just wanted to laugh around, like as I'm listening to him, like, yes, you have been so instrumental in me over the years and your teachings and the message that you just shared, and your teachings and the message that you just shared inviting in, okay, maybe I can relax a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more, not even relax, just let go a little bit more and let what actually wants to happen here happen, which is something that I am so in love with and have such a hard, have had such a hard time with, especially when it comes to my relationship with work, and, at the same time, it's so fascinating to hear you talk about this requirement for presence because in my healing with my mom before and after her death, in the unseen often, but in certain moments, seeing the part of my inner child, my young parts that were yearning for her, were just yearning for what I call wide open presence, like, and how much her diagnosis just snapped that away from us, even though she was physically there. And, um, you know there are many, many, many details where or moments where she was present. But there was also just this sense of that not being there. And then to see in me all of the places, through this process of oh, it's ready, you're ready to not only receive this medicine fully but give this medicine through being so present and letting everything else not matter quite as much and letting and trusting the spiritual energy of what is here to do what really matters and to bring into uh, to bring into form what really matters for you, to gift you energy where you need it to really do the orchestration of all of the pieces.
Ellie: 1:02:18
Wow, that has been extremely humbling to me and also like I can feel the wild aspects of being challenged by my own in the same way, the places that I can, am challenged and could be challenged as a mother and the same way, this is what I needed for my mom and the you know karmic pieces of all of that. But, yeah, it is such a relief. It is such a relief. I feel so grateful to get to experience that. Yes, like I care about the same things, but I care in such a different way and I think after birth I'm going to care even differently and the ongoing exploration of that can sometimes feel a little daunting to me and also feels completely magical to me and also feels completely magical.
Pilar: 1:03:37
Yes, yes, it, it. Can you feel your brain changing? Oh, yeah, yes, it's, it's. I keep saying this is the craziest psychedelic I've ever taken. I keep saying this is the craziest psychedelic I've ever taken. It's just like you said the caring For me. The ecosystem of my life has been rearranged in a way that I never could have done on my own, and it is so much better and more true. And it has made in this paradoxical way, the appropriate caring and things in their appropriate place have given them a deeper relationship to their power. Yeah, that they couldn't access before.
Ellie: 1:04:35
Hmm, yeah, yeah to this infinite aspect of them that, like for me, is so much of. You know, I'm in a very different stage of my business than you are with yours and this, this invitation to feel how infinite this work is and that it's not going away, and I'm not going away and we're not going away together. And this child, no, is, you know, part of that, in ways that I don't fully understand yet and maybe I won't even when, in the physical, but understanding the yeah, how it, how it's all infinitely entwined and just the deep rest that I think is I've been invited into in that Mm-hmm, yeah, okay, anything else you want to say about that? I want to transition us into grief a little bit. That feels perfectly complete, okay, anything else you want to say about that? I want to transition us into grief a little bit that feels perfectly complete Okay.
Ellie: 1:05:51
So your mom died when you were two, and do I remember correctly that she found out that she had a brain tumor when you were in her womb?
Pilar: 1:06:04
The day I was born, the day you were born, yeah, so I was an emergency cesarean one month early. I could have been earlier than a month. It's hard, because that experience was so traumatic for everyone that I can tell. When family members are telling me, you can feel that they're no one's remembering entirely well exactly what happened. So I could have been a month and a half early, which used to not really mean that much to me. Have been a month and a half early, which used to not really mean that much to me. And now that I'm pregnant, I'm like so I was going to be a monster baby, because I was a normal sized baby. I was not small.
Ellie: 1:06:58
My neighbor says, that she just cooks them fast.
Pilar: 1:07:01
Yeah, I wasn't. I was normal size, I was normal height, normal weight, but uh, it was. So my, my mom had either a seizure or a stroke. I think it was seizures. I think it was seizures and up to that point her and my dad had, to my knowledge, no awareness. Anything was wrong. And she loved being pregnant. Everyone. I totally took on some like fantasy pictures. I was like I'm gonna, it's gonna be amazing, I'm gonna feel so good because everyone said that's how she was. So I was like that's how I'm going to be. But anyway, she loved being pregnant and she had what I think was a seizure.
Pilar: 1:07:54
They rushed her to the hospital and this part is interesting because I almost feel like what happened is either they knew something was really wrong but didn't know what, or they knew, they had a pretty good idea that it was brain tumors or brain tumor and didn't want to freak her and my dad out because it went pilar. That I just was telling. My aunt was just telling me there was a big meeting with the OBs and the doctors and I think probably brain surgeons, of can we take the baby out. It was like a Grey's Anatomy episode, like they had a meeting of can we take her out? It was decided, yes, they took me out and, according to my dad, they took me out and, according to my dad, they took me out and within minutes, doctors filled the room and my dad knew something was horribly wrong. But and again, being pregnant, I'm like you just continue to understand your parents For the for the rest of our lives, we'll be making sense of our parents. But I am very I am, I think, almost the exact age of my dad. When this was happening, my mom was two years older and I'm also now pregnant like she was, and I'm just it's blowing my mind what they experienced. It is like it is incomprehensible. I'm wrapping my head around it, but what they went through would destroy almost everyone I know, so they.
Pilar: 1:09:52
I think she might have had brain surgery the same day. She had a C-section, I think, because it was. I was just talking to my uncle about this and he said because there's something happening in my family right now that's extremely similar that happened to my mom, which has been its own big thing happening while I'm pregnant. And I was talking to my uncle, my mom's brother, and he said what's happening with our other family members? I had asked him I said is this what happened to my mom? Is this the same tumors my mom had? And he said yes, this is exactly like your mom. And he said the only difference is they've had more time to make decisions, whereas with your mom it was so bad they just immediately went into whatever they had to do. So I think she might've had brain surgery not soon after having a cesarean Wow, had brain surgery not soon after having a cesarean Wow, and then she was given not long to live Like I think it was maybe six months max and and she had um there it's called geoblastoma, it's when the tumor has progressed and spread to stage four. And so she lived for two years.
Pilar: 1:11:13
And this is crazy, because I'm understanding this now in a way that I didn't before and I'm sure once I have a child I'll be understanding it in a whole new way again.
Pilar: 1:11:23
But something I've felt and uncovered is everybody loved me so much, but nobody was saying hello to me. Everybody was so wrapped up in what was happening Because it's like I came into the world and my dad's wife Is dying, my uncle's sister Is dying, my grandparents daughter Is dying. Everybody is now experiencing this From the moment I enter, but my mom Was with me, she was the one With me and that was like. That was like she knew she was going to die and and I can't I can't imagine what that does to your consciousness and it was like the person who knows they're going to die is actually the person that can give the most presence, because everyone said she was just accepting, she fought and she did live longer, but there was an acceptance that kind of freaked everybody out. But the gift she gave me was being my mom and being with me when nobody else could in that way yeah, we get the wide, open presence.
Ellie: 1:12:56
Yes, wow, you've already spoken to us a lot, but what I was gonna ask you or is how is? I don't know if carrying is the right word, but how is carrying the story, or relationship to the story, or feeling the the still potentially alive psychic exploration of this story? What's that been like for you?
Pilar: 1:13:30
it. It so, as I was, as I was leading up to being pregnant, I was getting whiffs of understanding in deeper ways than I had previously experienced, because it's like this is so hard to put into words, I really think, unless you've experienced it. But if, when you're not pregnant, your life is about you, you're living your life through your eyes, from your perspective. And for me and Chris, the day we found out it was bizarre. We were like watching Modern Family as Claire and Phil, we were watching commercials as the parents, and Chris was like, is this happening to you? And I was like, yes, it it all of a sudden. We would just be watching our funny shows and we'd be all of a sudden we're, we're empathizing with the parents just so quickly in that consciousness, and so I had been getting these whiffs through. A lot of it was through. Uh, our old neighbors have two kids that were really good friends with and I'm really close with the daughter and she's nine now, but she would our relationship and just watching her would invoke things in in my experience that helped me make sense of me and my mom and my childhood and my life and all these different things. So I was getting these kind of like whiffs. And then I became pregnant and I was, oh God, like there's the healing you do as the person who went through it and just feeling like I am so in awe of my parents, like what they went through, everyone, what they all went through, the magnitude my dad, my mom, like I, just they became the magnitude of their souls and what we all set up together and how chaotically and horribly perfect it was, became so much more clear. And this is weird, but I sort of tapped into like not anywhere near I know what she experienced, but how my mom was able to just accept I, I, I and yeah, it's been, it's been wild, like every day was kind of like a new layer opened.
Pilar: 1:16:59
And then the first, there's been these cataclysmic events, my whole pregnancy, which I am not blind to, the fact that this spirit, it has like a very volcanic energy and is pulling strings and threads to get things, help, help things along that that are in deep service to not just me but my family, everyone. And one of the things that happened is I have a dear, dear family member who, like I said, she has a geoblastoma. A geoblastoma and we found out. I found out the week I was going to tell them all I was pregnant, and so then it was like, okay, this is what's happening now and I want to create space for this because this is big and this is impacting all of us and it's happening on my mom's side of the family, and so I'm creating space for what's happening and to support and to be there and to just you know all the psychic work of like we're going to support.
Pilar: 1:18:21
Midway through my process, I almost feel myself to a very similar energy that I was born into and it's all the same people, some of the same people, and I was getting it from everyone's perspective. It was like now I have an understanding of what all the adults were going through because I'm a baby. Everyone else is adults, other than some of my cousins, grown people with fully developed brains, finding out either their daughter, their wife or their sister, their sister-in-law is now dying and has a baby, like that's. That's a crazy thing to go through, but then I also, simultaneously, was becoming aware of it. How I would describe it is for me there's always been different energies in my space that I know they're not mine, but I don't know what they are, and they've been with me for so long and I know if they're meant to leave one day they will.
Pilar: 1:19:52
But it almost has kind of felt like I was born and I was handed like six backpacks and it was like here, carry these until it comes time that you don't carry them anymore, but you have them and they're heavy and you're going to be walking around with them for a very long time, and so it was like a backpack of like boulders that filled my space. I became aware of this is the energy I was born into. That's always been swirling around me, and this happening in my family gave me a chance to start seeing and clearing something from my field that I just thought was there forever, for a very, very long time. And if I were to describe it, it was like I came in. I left the womb and I came into like a different womb of shock and fear and confusion and grief and anger and and just total chaos. Like the atom bomb dropped the day I came in. So it was like I entered in the atom bomb.
Ellie: 1:21:02
Yeah, it's like hard to separate the two of you. Yeah, yeah, it's like hard to separate the two of you. Yeah, yes, and and this process.
Pilar: 1:21:15
I just never thought I'd know there, I couldn't have ever conceived of this that while I'm pregnant I would get this opportunity to see and start to release some of these energies that were just a backpack I had just been handed and I felt the baby, like the spirit, like you can let go of this now.
Ellie: 1:21:41
Yeah, this isn't you. Yeah, Wow, yeah, this isn't you. Yeah, well, I was listening to you. Well, I don't, this is what came up. I don't know that you would and you can tell me uh, really, that backpack carrying to the word responsibility.
Ellie: 1:22:12
But something that came up for me is this experience that I've had, which I assume is my own version of an experience that I think a lot of people have, but we all have it so differently that there's almost a loneliness in it. That's been what my sense has been, which has been the sense of feeling this exit of responsibilities that cannot be there anymore or are not ours to carry, or were never our backpacks to holds, that are being cleansed and released. Finally, and then, with time, feeling the energy and responsibility of motherhood, but in a very because responsibility is something you've also worked on with you and throughout your work a lot, and I remember years ago, when you were teaching about it and someone, I heard someone say their responsibility, ability to respond, and I was like, wait, what? How did I never think about this this clearly before? But now, thinking about this ability to respond to the energy of motherhood and feeling that descend into my body and like into my life and start to touch me and and start to prepare the space for what's to come. The first few moments that I felt that I was just in tears all weekend I moments that I felt that I was just in tears all weekend I yearned for to talk about it with my mom and and like yearn for the person that felt that for me when I was growing inside of her and felt so much compassion and curiosity and understanding and healing in the sense of whoa.
Ellie: 1:24:11
She felt this for me, like her version of this for me, even though I don't didn't necessarily know how to receive it as a kid. It was there, or her version of it didn't look the way that you know. I perfectly received it, but I have zero doubt that she had her own experience of that and there's been a lot of moments of Sigh. Yeah, just wanting to be able to talk to her about it, I mean to be able to ask her what that was like. When I think of your mom, just like whoa, I want to know this person how did you do this? How did you move through that? How did you know to? These aren't questions that will have answers, obviously, but just these questions that live on in the heart of how were you able to gift that wide, open presence to Pilar that you did, I don't know. Just all these beautiful kind of curiosities come up and there's grief in the not ever knowing and also beauty in the not knowing.
Pilar: 1:25:36
That exists, I think but I was just many is that they live those answers through us and we might not even know that the answer, we're living the answer, or we might get a sense we are, but they hear the questions and they find a way to breathe the answer into us.
Ellie: 1:26:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that feels right. Anything you want to say about the energy of motherhood, as you're beginning to explore it more and more, what that's been like for you.
Pilar: 1:26:45
Yeah. Yeah, I really resonate with what you said about feeling how my body, nervous system or we got this, we are rearranging to do this and in that vein this is an odd thing to share, but it's what's coming in I have had this very strong kind of splenic instinct of really not it. It's. I'm not being avoidant of information, I just am being. I don't want to read 80,000 books, I don't want to read every article on everything that could happen. I don't want to know every article on everything that could happen. I don't want to know the infinite vortex of experiences. I already know them psychically, and everyone's different.
Pilar: 1:27:56
I've had a few friends who are mothers, who are like oh, I have this PDF of all the best books and I'm happy to receive that from them and I'm like, happy to receive that from them. But I've, I have felt, you know, and I think part of this is the age we live in knowing the the all the way from primal, physical to like soul level intelligence, that we were born to do this and there is straight, there is live, living libraries of wisdom pouring through our cells and I haven't I haven't wanted to shroud those in too much information. I've, I'm reading some stuff I'm happy to to. It's like you know, the stuff that comes in, you're like, oh, that's right, I'm supposed to read that. I'm still having those experiences, but there's a whole book I'm reading. That's just happening through my body, my consciousness and my communication with the child and with Chris, and the collaboration of all of us that I, pilar, would be missing if I was oversaturating myself in information.
Pilar: 1:29:25
I'm also like like you, I'm I'm so sensitive so I can get like really full of things you know, like on Instagram.
Pilar: 1:29:34
I'm like I I just looked at three people and now I, I need to like take a bath because I and and so that that has been really cool and it, that has been really cool and it feels just oddly very right and I'm not blind to also feeling like the spirit of the baby is like yep, yep, like I'm teaching you right now and that's part of this and I want you to hear what I'm and then the awareness that I have been being prepared for this, this parenthood, but also this to parent this specific soul, probably for lifetimes, in one way or another, and that's all available yeah, yeah, it is really wild to feel the humanness of the preparation happening for me personally, like in the emotional realms especially, and the levels of maturity that I've been able to step into through that alchemy in my life over the past seven years of now being able to interact and lead and guide and be present from the me that I am now, but then to think about it in the vastness of eons of energy, of knowing this being and this being knowing me.
Ellie: 1:31:11
I had this incredible glimpse of an image about a year ago. It was really my arrival to feeling quote unquote ready, which I never expected to feel ready and I, uh, also just felt so, not ready. Um and so, and this inner I had this inner battle for a long time that I worked with a long term mentor of mine, um around, because she was like there, your motherhood is here, where are you in relationship to it? And I was like work I have to choose work or motherhood, work or motherhood. And this um, constant feeling like I had to make a choice, like where's my energy going to go? If I have the energy that I have, I don't have it for both places which has now fully been, is being reworked and it's on many levels.
Ellie: 1:32:14
But I had this image at one point in that exploration that just calmed all of that. That was if I saw myself at the center of my life and all of these parts of my life and just let this baby arrive like where did it? Or let a child arrive, where would it arrive? And it just showed up in my lap and so clearly knew everything about my life, so clearly knew what I was here for, what I was doing, what was happening in my marriage, what was happening in my other family was just, you know, in my lap, a part of it.
Pilar: 1:33:05
And that image was the beginning of like this exhale from that tension that I felt for so long. That's just beautiful. It's so beautiful that you got to transform that before it arrives and that you got to open your perception, your perception widened to see. It is in collaboration with everything I had for years in my 20s so many different wise women. You know, when, like, there's a message you're supposed to get and people just randomly give it to you for years and you didn't ask for it One of the ones I've been getting, honestly, since I was little and Nona would look at me and go, pilar, babies aren't bad. She'd always say that. She'd say babies aren't bad, babies are a blessing. And Nona lived that Like it was not. She lived that my mom's mom and then also basically raised my one of my cousins and then me and we were her fifth and sixth children. And when, when my mom was pregnant, uh, when my cousin was, was when, when his mom was pregnant with him, um, both situations were were interesting circumstances Mine, because of what I shared, his was different and she dropped everything to support the babies and so she'd always say babies aren't bad, babies aren't bad.
Pilar: 1:34:40
And then different women as I got older and once I had the business it became. There's this one woman who I love and every time I met with her she'd say she'd be like, are you pregnant yet? And I'd say no, and she'd be like you know, the baby will enhance your work. Like she said, babies bring abundance. They bring their own set of tools and abundance and ideas and visions. And she'd always say it's not going to take away from, it's going to enhance your work. And she's saying that to me all through my 20s. So I kept getting these messages of like, similar to what you learned. It's like people were trying to get that through to me of, yes, you'll change, yes, your energy will rearrange, but it will come and it will know what you're up to and it will enhance it. And and I for I, I know there is not a sliver of doubt in my mind now around that. It is so obvious to me, not even being a mom yet, just being pregnant, it is so obvious to me that that is true. Yeah.
Ellie: 1:36:05
Yeah, and I think in every layer that we're humbled in the process of the letting go. It's like, oh yeah, this is part of it and it's knowing that offers so much in that rapid release and rapid welcoming in. I just want to make a comment about social media. It's so funny, I am so bored by what's out there, like I look at that from a pregnant place and I am like this is so flat. Yes, there is this and I'd still play with social media because there's no one's world really enjoy it. But it's the awareness of how flat it is is like never before and is only growing.
Pilar: 1:37:07
Yes, ok, yes, like never before, and is only growing. Yes, okay, yes. So I was feeling this right before I got. I was like, the three months before I was, I was like I'm so bored with all of this, all of this, as in even parts of my work, and I kept saying bored and Chris was like pick a different word, it's not bored, it's something different.
Pilar: 1:37:39
And so the thing I came up with was the frequency of disenchantment. I was disenchanted and I recognized before I was pregnant, this is a natural part of evolution. I'm seeing this differently. Clearly there's an evolution afoot, there's nothing to do, but things are changing. Then I became pregnant and it hilarious because, like before, I was like there's going to be this rebirth and I'm going to be passionate again and I'll be enchanted again. And I became pregnant and the frequency of disenchantment went up like a thousand. Like a thousand hits where I was like now I just really don't care, just really don't care, and the way I've been relating to it. This is actually such a great thing to talk about because if I didn't have a relationship to hormones and just took everything that was happening as this is what it is now, I would have closed down everything I do. I would have literally shut down everything. I would have gotten off social media. I would have done very extreme things.
Pilar: 1:39:03
And I was working on this with one of my teachers and there was two really profound things that came up. The first was the level of knowing I had before felt big compared to now. I feel very, I like I don't know about my work, it's just a big, I don't know. And he was like I can so relate to that, yeah. And he was like, well, look at your knowing before and how much of that energy was yours. And I was like, oh, some of my knowing before wasn't even mine, it was other people's, it was other energies creating a stronger sense of knowing than what I actually had.
Pilar: 1:39:51
And then I also looked at look at how normal it is to go through something like pregnancy and feel your knowing get really, really, really small and how that's completely natural. And he even said you're in a better place now because you're starting with what's true, which is, like I know, 5% rest I don't know. And so there there was that piece. And then there was the piece of and this one has been more difficult for me, recognizing that the level of passion and creativity I felt from my work before is just not there now. And that doesn't mean I I mean I shouldn't say it's not there across the board, because the one thing that's held true is, when I work with people, I'm on, I feel it, I feel the projector magic, I feel the baby, all excited whenever we're working with someone and that's there and that's alive, and it's where all the life force is. But in terms of me creating things which is funny because it's like, well, I am creating something- Yep, your creation energy is redirected.
Pilar: 1:41:13
Yes, in terms of that which social media is us creating things to share and so anything in that arena, I've just felt like a nothing, and what I've been, I guess I want to say, grappling with, but then also kind of successfully doing, is still doing what I committed to do, still showing up for what my commitments are, with a lesser amount of passion and a lesser amount of external creative energy like pulsing, and then just letting that be okay and seeing that everybody's totally fine with it. Yeah, like it's. It's not a huge deal. But but to what you said in the beginning, yes, I, social media feels like a flat, like flat papers, and it's very bizarre.
Ellie: 1:42:16
Yeah, and the people that I'm enjoying the most are surprising to watch or to like observe in the flat paperness are really surprising me. You know who. One of them is Ishany frankel, who I didn't. Well, I love her. She was never, oh not surprised, but I was never a housewives person. I didn't even know really who she was until not that long ago. And yet I my sister asked me like what do you get out of this? Like engaging with her stuff. I said I just so appreciate that. She just is who she is and just does what she wants to do, and so much of my medicine in this process has been embracing that about myself. And, of course, the person, one of the people that I'm most enjoying engaging with is somebody that you know in her 50s, is just living.
Pilar: 1:43:09
That I I love her, she, you should. You should go on youtube and just watch clips of her from when she was a housewife. She, she was. I loved her on the show. She, she, she was one of the best ones. She would just say it like it is. She'd have the funniest commentaries. She, it, it was, yeah, it was great. She, she's, she's a. I think she's a scorpio sun, capricorn moon. She's very to to the point.
Ellie: 1:43:41
Yes, yep, and not only to the point, but just doesn't give any Fs, and there's so much of my version of that medicine that's coming online of me getting to experience that. But it's really fun to watch somebody else and it's like that. In that there's a spark of something for me. But I'm just looking at the normal aspects. Yes, flat papers passing by. It's really, really, really interesting and I'm really excited for you. I'm really excited to watch what happens in the next. How many weeks pregnant are you right now? Like today is 19, 19, okay, I'm really excited to watch what happens to you around this.
Ellie: 1:44:35
I don't know, because I have had this reflection in the past few days. I was like wow, I really didn't know for a long time and I found so much acceptance and peace in that. I don't know. And all of a sudden my work is like circling back, hardcore as I'm entering, like my last, of course, stint Right and it's hilarious, and the depth and all of the beautiful parts of all of the pulling off, the pieces of the trying and the carrying and all of the things.
Ellie: 1:45:28
It's starting to circle back, question and release the grief label of my work at the beginning and at the same time knew there's no way.
Ellie: 1:45:38
Grief is never going to be part of my work, right? And so the invitation of the unknown, of the I don't know around that was just like okay, welcome in the other things, but don't get rid of the things that are here. And now I'm finding this massive circling back around where, oh yeah, it all is starting and ending here and then it's going to have a new iteration on the other side of birth. But it's so wild to see and I'm really curious to see what will happen to you as you're attuned to that, because that's very, very, very recent. Like I'm 30, going to be 32 weeks on Friday and only in the past two to three weeks have I felt that happen. And it's as the slowdown is happening in a different on my body level, and then I'm allowing that to happen on another level, because second trimester has its own kind of energy that starts to take form, and only in the slowdown is that starting to happen. So I'm really curious to check back in and see what that's like for you.
Pilar: 1:46:50
Wow, what you're describing right now is something a lot of women have told me about that. I have to be very careful not to be like is it coming?
Ellie: 1:47:12
Sure sure I can imagine.
Pilar: 1:47:16
But beyond, where I create rigidity around things. It's very apparent to me and I think this is so. It's very apparent to me and I think this is so, oh God, I feel like this makes the work so much more real when you have to just sit there for however long and be like what are you? Who are you? What am I doing? What am I here to steward Like? What is like cause?
Pilar: 1:47:45
My prayer has been like what is life asking of me? What, what can I offer? That life is truly asking of me right now? What is it? Because I'll, whatever that is, even if it's it's the simplest, subtlest thing. That is where I will put my energy, and it has it's been.
Pilar: 1:48:02
Just just keep showing up for your commitments, keep working with people one-on-one and and just just do it. Just that's where, that's where you have the skillset, that's what you can offer to life. But in terms of like the larger work as a whole, you just described it so beautifully because I could see my work asking for this long before I was pregnant, and would I have ever given it to it in the way I am now if I hadn't become pregnant? And now I'm just, I'm sitting at it and it's like, whatever you want to be, I'm here and I can feel you know you can, you can kind of track cycles. There was a huge death, a huge letting go, and now it's definitely in the quiet. The wave has receded. It has not yet come back. Yep, there's nothing to rush or force, but I, I couldn't be the pressure force if you tried.
Pilar: 1:49:09
Yep, and then, in that space too, getting to see what the spiritual I was pregnant. Like 40 to 50 moms follow me on Instagram and I'm like what is going on? Like I was like did, where did they all come from? It did? It's not like my pregnancy post was shared by tons of people. You shared it and my friend Amaruka shared it, and that doesn't necessarily equate to 50 moms appearing, but they just all appear. And I'm like now, when people follow me, I normally don't click on who's following me. I'm clicking on it because I'm like are you pregnant or a mom? I just had you know. Meg Meg Thompson, yeah, she joined Innovate and in her reason inside the forum, she's like reason number one Pilar is pregnant. I'm just like I'm not, this is just happening, this is just happening.
Ellie: 1:50:26
That's so cool. Yeah, I know something good is happening and I want to be a part of it. Wow, that's so cool. Well, how do you feel about talking about your dad?
Pilar: 1:50:37
Good yeah, yeah.
Ellie: 1:50:40
I would like to with me yesterday via email that not only have you been walking through this tremendous process on its own, but that your dad also passed away very recently. Grief and life and death and life, and all of it so intertwined Like I can feel the vastness of it, as I said to you, and the words to say tell me about this are not even here, because whoa and then you shared when we came back, when we started today is how different of a process it's been than anyone can conceptualize and how weird it seems from the outside, and yet, I would assume, how correct it has been for you to live it this way. So what would you like to share?
Pilar: 1:51:37
Uh, yeah because my dad has been. I've never known a physically healthy version of him, but the last 10 plus years, probably a solid decade, he was sick and getting worse and and the the getting worse was something. Every time I saw him I would notice something, something worse. And oh, this is the first podcast, not even the first podcast, this is the first time in my work that he's ever been brought up and I feel him just chair pulled up, legs crossed, so present, like, so tuned in to me and my life and my work, and so here, in a way that he, I know, wanted to be but could not when he was alive. So, yeah, his I, like I told you before and I think you know, with knowing you, knowing Melina, when Melina's mom was was getting worse while she was pregnant, mom was was getting worse while she was pregnant, I remember creating space for her and in that space not in, not from projection, but from that space, feeling this thread of I think this is going to happen to me too. There's something here and and but, but not. It's like her, her and her mom's relationship was so wildly different than mine and my dad's. You know there's every experience is so different, but there was that like supporting Melina and witnessing Melina is offering me a point of resource for something I think I will walk through my own version of.
Pilar: 1:54:12
And that was when it really started to click for me that this was probably going to happen either while I was pregnant or not soon after giving birth. I even was like it could happen the day I give birth, because in my family the way people choose to leave it's like it's like Kara's always like your family is crazy the way people come in and leave and the dates and how it all happens. But so I had a feeling. I had a feeling my dad was going to die. I had a feeling. I had a feeling my dad was going to die and, like I told you, he died the day I was going to tell him I was pregnant because I knew it would be so hard for him to know that and there was even this part of me that was like it could kill him if I told him. And when I found out he had died and I shared this with you before, but I'll say it again, I had, yes, I was shocked, yes, I was sad, but never before have I felt such an ecstatic release from the physical and I felt him here, finally, looking around. You're pregnant, look at your life, look at your marriage, look at who you are. I felt him just in awe and getting to have every experience that he couldn't but wanted to so badly, and getting to have it free of shame and free of fear, and I felt I felt him like instantly meet the baby. The baby was like laughing at me, like you think I don't know your dad, like just this, and you know, yes, it's intense to have something like that happen while being pregnant, but it happened while I was pregnant. For a reason.
Pilar: 1:56:53
I have grieved my dad and our relationship a thousand times in the last 10 years and even before that, I think I started grieving my dad young, and so it's still surreal and it's still momentous and there is still grief. It's still surreal and it's still momentous and there is still grief. But my, the deaths I've experienced prior to this um, that I was cognizant of is part of what you're grieving is the loss of the physical relationship you're grieving. I can't talk to you like I used to, I can't pick up the phone, I can't see you like I used to, and that is exactly what I've spent the last 10 years grieving around my dad is like you're, I miss who you were when I was a kid. I miss our relationship, I miss you being present. I like I, I miss all that and you can't give that anymore.
Pilar: 1:57:50
And so when he died, it was like.
Pilar: 1:57:55
It was just like freedom, like relief, freedom, like ecstatic I felt. I felt an aspect of my mom just waiting for him. Oh yeah, and that was the first thing I said to Chris and Kara. I was like he's finally with my mom again and like the dad I knew. I only knew him without her and so I only knew him missing the love of his life and I just he died exactly 30 years after her, exactly 30 years after her. So it was like this it was like 30 years without her and then finally with her again, in a way, died and it's like everything pulled back and it was just your mom, your dad and you again and the baby and like that's what was? That's what was there, what was there?
Pilar: 1:59:33
And and even in like really weird logistical ways, like I didn't ask for this, but his ashes are going to me and I knew instantly I'm taking them to my mom's grave, like and and that will be the baby's first trip wow is me, chris and the baby will go to my mom's grave and spread his ashes.
Pilar: 1:59:58
Yeah, I'm so it's. I've been working on it with my teachers and I was I was with one of my teachers and she I said now it's like I've been making my way towards this awareness and now that he's gone, it's, it's sealing of. There was so much to process and transform while my dad was alive, so much and then in his death, of course, there's been new waves and my dad gave absolutely everything he had to me. He gave absolutely everything he had and, regardless of there's could be infinite perceptions around that and there is in our family there's lots of perceptions, but I just felt so clearly that was his absolute best and that is good wow, I'm receiving some you saying that, thank you you're welcome yeah, I just need a second to see what wants to come now.
Ellie: 2:01:34
Did you know that Melina had that same thing with me? Where? No, yeah. So the summer after my mom died our relationship started to deepen. We were already good friends but we were like, once a month we'd have really long phone conversations and the very beginning of them I would just be laying in the park under a tree like I don't know what is life, what is happening, like I was in the it was maybe three months after she died just like so much was stripping, had been stripped away and just in the, in the pullback of the wave of, you so beautifully explained it and I would just be in the park laying there and just talking about it and she'd listen and then just say I don't know why, but I know I'm going to need you someday and I this was a couple of years before her mom was diagnosed the first time and I was like I hate that and also yeah, and I will be here, and also feeling that I trust you and what you're saying, like if you feel that I don't, I'm not going to talk you out of, I'm not going to talk you out of that, but that's really powerful to hear you then like pulling that, and I think it's such a gift to just let it be recorded and to whomever the like one of these things you would never wish on anyone.
Ellie: 2:03:20
And at the same time, it's like if you need to receive this somehow, this is the best way to do it and this is a pure just offering. That is not even intended, but here it is and it's really special to have heard you share that here and to like, just like, let the lineage of whatever that is continue with whomever, whether we know them or not can I add something to what I share that feels really important for other people to hear?
Pilar: 2:03:56
that, I know, is not an not an isolated experience. I I think we we are in some ways born with the fear that our parents will die and obviously everyone has wildly different relationships to their parents and I spent a lot of my childhood absorbed in this. There was this existential aloneness I was afraid of and I used to cry myself to sleep and I used to go when my Nona's gone and my dad is gone, I will be completely alone and I will not be okay and it was like a terror I felt. And I've been talking to people and everyone has kind of reflected to me that I've talked to. They have their own version of who will I be when my parents are gone, what will happen to me. And I've even talked to people who said I used to cry myself to sleep, thinking about when my parents would die or when my mom or my dad, whoever they were really close with.
Pilar: 2:05:13
And it's also funny because I as a child, everything I liked media-wise was about orphans. So like Matilda, annie and Anastasia were like my three favorite movies and I was already very much identified with the orphan archetype, like very, very young and anyway, obviously, when I was little was a very long time ago ago, and so when, when my Nona died in 2022, that was its own and her, her death. She was 90. She died on my 30th birthday. It was. We couldn't have planned it better, her and I. It was, it was, it was and she was so complete, her life was so full. And when she died, I was like my aunt and uncle called me and I wasn't expecting this and they reflected to me what I knew and they said she let go because she finally trusted you were okay without her. And I remember feeling that and feeling that little girl who was terrified of being alone is gone. And she understands that and I understand that. And when my dad died, there was this like okay, it's happened. The thing little, you was most terrified of your, your three main people are gone your, your mom, your dad and your Nona and my groggy too, that everyone's gone.
Pilar: 2:07:04
And a part of me looked for that, that terror of aloneness. Like, okay, here it comes. And and like it was like 5% of me tried to backslide into like is it? Is it going to come? Am I going to feel that way and I have never felt more surrounded and together with people than I have now. I have never felt less alone, and it's not just that I have community, it's also the ancestors. It's something I've been working on with my teachers, where we work on, like you know.
Pilar: 2:07:48
This is a deep energy in your system you can start to let go of, and it was to get to experience I feel like you understand this so deeply to get to meet yourself on the other side of your deepest, deepest fear that kept you up at night. To get to meet that version of you and recognize you're not just okay, you are more alive than you've ever been. It's like you said you wouldn't wish the death of a parent on anyone, and when you walk through initiations like this, you also you wish the what comes on anyone who wants it. You know what I mean. Like it's it's the one time I heard this woman say congratulations for your pain, say congratulations for your pain, yeah, and it's been horrible but perfect to, to, to meet this version of me while pregnant, to feel my child, like we got this, like you are not alone.
Ellie: 2:09:09
It that is so old yeah yeah yeah, one thing that I lived with consciously that I didn't understand for decades was and I think I had and you, because your mom wasn't physically there anymore but there's like this gift and also this also really strange aspect I don't even know what to call it of the awareness of death so early on, where it's unconsciously always there, like I. I agree with you that there's this awareness that they could go in any moment. But then to have this moment of a diagnosis where my hyper vigilance to okay, this could happen at any moment now like this is this is not only just a ethereal possibility, this is on a platter of possibility in front of us, and then to live with that and so much of that for me activated. There's so many intertwined pieces of it that it's not even the right moment to go into them because they would take a long time. But the moment that my mom died and in the subsequent months, my experience of I thought I was going to die too if she died and I didn't realize that was going to die too if she died and I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that so much of my protection, my desire to protect and keep her alive and control all of that destiny, which is uncontrollable, is also the deep fear that was in me that I would no longer be as well. And yet I am, and I'm not right, and I am so much more alive than ever before and at the same time, the that was a huge process for me, I guess is the best way to say it.
Ellie: 2:11:30
It was wait, I didn't die. So now what? Like what happens now? Yes, there's the grieving of her and our relationship and all of these things that didn't didn't get to happen, that you know, I continue to live in those atom bomb waves that come.
Ellie: 2:11:47
But then this like kind of dumbfoundedness in my system of like, wait, you're alive, wait what? And how beautiful to hear you be in a place where not only the presence of your child, but also to be in a place with yourself where you get to be feeling that already and to be swimming in that and exploring it. And I guess that's what the transformed by grief journey is, you know, is the willingness to see that and the willingness to live the pain at the same time and the yes to all of it, the yes I am still alive and there's so much here for me, there's so much inside of me and there's so much that once unfolds through me and at the same time, I am not going to push away or back down from any of the ripples that cause me pain in the process, which will probably last the rest of.
Pilar: 2:13:04
To live that in a time and a world where that's not necessarily offered to you and you have to be willing it exists but it's not widely offered and to be to say like I'm going to take my machete and I'm going to carve this space around me and I'm going to be in this process and I'm going to let everyone sit outside of it and have their own responses and reactions to it, but I I'm I'm gifting this to myself.
Ellie: 2:13:50
Yeah, yeah. And to end, maybe, just I love well, soft ending because there might be more, but just the gratitude I have of every time we get to share the multi-dimensionality of this experience and let it defy the understanding of loss and grief and also the willingness to constantly let that change and to know that in one month and five months and five years, if I'm in a different place around that, that's okay. But right now I get to live in the relief and the pain. I get to live in the ecstasy and the pain. I remember hours, less than an hour, my mom died at our childhood home with my dad and my sister and myself and me, and there was actually a nurse there too, and it was so, so funny actually she I don't think I've ever gotten to tell you some of these details, but the nurse came because we needed to move her, like rotate her body to keep bed sores from forming, and it was so hard. It was so hard emotionally, it was so hard physically, like we didn't know what we were doing, we had gone through, it was the middle of a pandemic, and so we ended up being the person giving the morphine and the lorazepam and all of this stuff. And I was to a point where like we should not be doing this, there should be somebody else that knows what they're doing doing this. And so we had had this really horrible night.
Ellie: 2:15:38
Two nights passed and I was just like that's it, we're calling for help. And so we called and we're like we need someone to come shift her because we are afraid it's so painful, there's so many layers of it to think about, like moving your person and in that state, and the nurse came and I don't even remember if she shifted her or not. She called us into the other room to have a conversation about where things were at and basically told us like we getting close and then literally we're sitting in the other room because she didn't want to talk about it in front of my mom. And she moved us into the other room and all of a sudden goes I'm going to go check on Joanne. This is maybe like 20 minutes later and comes in and calls us in and says she's really close to taking her last breath. And we were literally only there for her last like three breaths.
Ellie: 2:16:33
And I was like, of course, mom, you, in your lack of not wanting to be vulnerable and weak in front of anybody else. You waited, first of all to know that there's somebody else to take care of us and to be with us in this process, but also I kept feeling that she's going to die in the middle of the night because, yeah, I was like she doesn't want us to be watching her, like she wants us with her, but she doesn't want us watching her. And my sister had the same sense and we both, you know, it was just so wild. Anyways, why did I start saying all of that?
Ellie: 2:17:07
Oh, a couple hours later, I needed to go pick up my dad's dog, who was being boarded, so that we could bring her home to smell her before they came to attend to my mom's body, and it was maybe a 15 minute drive and I was rocking out to music in the car and one of my best friends called me and I was like I don't know, I'm just, it's like such a relief and there's all this stuff.
Ellie: 2:17:35
And for weeks I had this energy and of I'm not relieved that my mom isn't here, but I am relieved that the suffering is no longer and the weight of the blanket that that was over our life and over my life and that existed for so long that didn't allow what we all wanted.
Ellie: 2:17:56
It's like thank god, thank god that that is gone and with time there's other processes to live with it. But in that period you said I don't know if you said this right now or you said it earlier, but you said it grieved him in anticipation for so long. And when the physical body is so burdened and the fight has been so long, that's something we it's so complex and we don't get to see or talk about it, and a lot of people don't die when their kids are in their 30s, and so it's also like a different experience to live it later on in your life. But yeah, I don't even know how to conclude what I want to say. There's just this deep importance of being able to share about it and to be able to invite in the full spectrum of the experience, and only in that full spectrum do we get to tap into the heart of what's really happening.
Pilar: 2:19:04
Yes, I love that story. I can sense her personality as Joanne, the way she left yeah, she didn't want that. She didn't want to. All of you there for a whole thing.
Pilar: 2:19:43
Yeah, about this is funny because you're so you've, you're so separate from all of this. It's like not in your space at all, um, but the way it it, especially being pregnant the way we're so conditioned to be obsessed with life and so avoidant of death when they're actually it's so funny, even like the way your mom, when you described it, finally released and the ecstasy I imagine when you give birth and there's there's a release of it is here. Now it is out of me. There's an ecstasy of, of like, and it's here just like. There's an ecstasy of when someone lets go and and we're the the mass overlay of death is it's just horrible, it's just horribleness, that's like.
Pilar: 2:20:54
The main thing I see is it's, it's, it's both. It's, it's horrible and it it kicks up for most people what they think they would experience or what they have, and it's often one of those two. It's what I have or what I think I would if this were happening to me, when, exactly like you said, if you don't take that on and you're just there. It's, it's everything, Everything is within it, and it's it's I think of. Have you read Martine Prechtel? The Smell of Rain on Dust?
Ellie: 2:21:45
No.
Pilar: 2:21:46
Oh my gosh, it's like my favorite book on grief. It's, it's I think it. The subtext is like on grief and praise and it's. He lived with an indigenous in how they related to death and grief, experience that there there was grief and ecstasy, and grief and praise, and like loss and celebration became one in the same. For the, for the tribe and the, the main thing they did that was like one of my huge takeaways is the moment of death. They all, they all stopped their lives together and just created space for the, the whole experience, and they didn't go back to their lives until there was a point of completion for everyone. Wow, which we can't do in the same way, but we can in our own way. Yeah, like you can be in the car going to pick up the dog, blasting music, just so alive in the process.
Ellie: 2:23:22
Yeah, three things came to mind and then I'll let you say anything you want to say to end, but one is here we are circling back to wide, open presence and the gift that we have both received in our own ways and lived very differently of having enough pulled away and being willing enough to release over and over and over again, to make space for that presence when it's time. And I feel like we, we and many people we know, and just this generation of sensitive people, intuitives like this chance transformational workers I don't know what to call us or beings it's just like opening that possibility in the collective, because the preparation, that is, the preparation that allows you to live, and not everybody gets that and it's not needed to be able to live the moment, like that atom bomb will offer you what you need if you are willing. You know whether you are prepared or not.
Ellie: 2:24:39
And yet, similar to that moment with my mom, and then similar to pregnancy, looking back and be like, oh, everything's been leading to here, and then now, knowing that like, yeah, I, and now I'm totally different than I was four and a half years ago when that moment happened with my mom, but here I am again in that process, with her being prepared into motherhood and everything's leading to here, and then knowing that that kind of string is going to be, there's going to be another tack on the map where that string is going to be extended over time. But so much of it has come down to, for me, the reflection of the willingness to be with what's there and then allow the clearing, the cleansing, the letting go whatever the word is that resonates and is true for you, and sometimes it feels pretty violent and fucking sucks, but you know it's not fun. But there's so much there and so much um, such a deep gift in that, and I was just thinking about that while you were talking.
Ellie: 2:25:55
And then the last thing I wanted to say was I love that you married that moment of that ecstasy, of like releasing back to birth, because recently I've been thinking a lot about how, having lived, walked somebody to that death portal and knowing that death portal so intimate I've actually done that with multiple people. Now, as I'm starting to think about the physical, psychic, mental, emotional aspects of preparing for birth and I have like, oh, this is circling in my energy field, is this awareness of the marriage that I've had of life and death right here together in the circle, and how willing am I and how trusting am I to walk up to that threshold? Again, I don't have a choice. I'm going no matter what, but how open can I be in approaching that without the fear of being swept away by it?
Pilar: 2:27:07
Just like that.
Ellie: 2:27:09
Yeah it, and of course many parts of me will be swept away by it. But that my body, that my aliveness, that my vitality is not going to be. It's pretty wild to walk into that moment with that awareness. It's something I think I'll probably be talking about for a long time and yet haven't experienced yet. So I don't have anything else to say on it yet. But anything come up for you that you want to share on that.
Pilar: 2:27:45
Or to conclude with it's just beautiful, it's I, I it's just like you. I have no idea because I haven't experienced it, but my sense is just like you. The intimacy I've had with death has most likely been some of the best preparation. And everyone I know a lot of women who they're like birth death workers. So they're at a lot of births and they're at a lot of deaths and the resounding thing they all say is they are not that different. Yep, yeah, they're, they're. They're oddly and eerily similar. Yeah, and I'm so glad I incarnated as a woman in this lifetime. I just I know I've been a man before, I know I've been a woman before, but I, it's so cool.
Ellie: 2:29:23
Yeah, it really is, yeah when I have friends. When I asked her yeah, it really is, yeah, when I have friends. When I asked her if she wanted to guess the sex of the baby before I told her she goes, it's a girl. Because you are so overflowing with feminine energy that can't not be shared into another human and I was like, wow, I've never thought about them hit that way, but I felt so touched, as somebody that doesn't necessarily speak in those terms very often, but I was like, wow, yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way for now and there will be other ways. There will be other ways later on, but that was pretty cool. Yeah, thank you for being here. Let's take a second to check in if there's anything that feels incomplete or needs more space.
Pilar: 2:30:33
I feel great, me too. Yeah, I feel like a beautiful ripeness.
Ellie: 2:30:44
I love that, thank you, I love that. Thank you, I love you. This is really special and I feel like there We'll get to journey back and reconnect on these things for years to come. And what a gift.
Ellie: 2:31:02
I love you too, thank you for listening to transformed by grief. Please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe to the show and to share it with a loved one that needs this medicine today. If you are ready to deepen into your own transformed by grief process, you can join the sanctuary membership or work with me one-on-one at eliflocom. See you soon.
Episode Music credit:
Embrace by Sappheiros | https://soundcloud.com/sappheirosmusic
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Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported (CC BY 3.0) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/